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Guaranteed Pools For Champions Day

Starts with Champions Day

TAB plans to offer minimum-amount guaranteed Pick 6 pools on major racedays in future and kicks off with a R4.5-million guaranteed pool on the Champions Day race meeting at Turffontein this Saturday.

Champions Day is one of the “Big 4” race meetings on the SA calendar – it’s Joburg’s richest raceday and features Jozi’s richest race in the R4-million Premier’s Champions Challenge.

The Pick 6 pool on the meeting starts with a R1.1-million carryover and should soar way over the R5-million mark (TAB’s official estimate is R5.1 million).

But to heighten interest and awareness, and to satisfy the requests of many customers, TAB is guaranteeing a total net pool of R4.5 million up front.

Vee Moodley – innovating

“Many of our customers have said that only knowing the approximate pool a few minutes before the off hampers their play,” said TAB boss Vee Moodley.

“These customers tend to base the amount they spend on the Pick 6 on the actual pool size, not our estimates, and to encourage them to spend more we will guarantee minimum pool levels for major race meetings.”

Should a pool fail to reach the guaranteed amount, TAB will make up the difference subject to the condition that all commingling partners are able to bet into the pool as scheduled.

“Obviously if a local or international commingling partner is prevented from betting into the pool for whatever reason, for example a loss of connectivity, the guarantee will fall away. Once the pool exceeds the guaranteed amount, the actual pool total will be displayed and paid out as normal,” said Moodley.

TAB is also guaranteeing a minimum R2.7-million Pick 6 pool for the Daisy Guineas meeting at Greyville this Sunday, when the pool will start with a R750,000 carryover.

There’s a bumper TAB betting menu for Champions Day with carryovers into several pools in addition to the Pick 6.

Details are:

Race 1: Normal range of TAB bets

Race 2: BiPot ONE Leg 1 – R25,246 caarryover, likely pool R550,000

Race 3: PA Leg 1 – likely pool R1,250,000

Race 4: Pick 6 MEGAPOOL Leg 1 – R1,100,000 carryover, GUARANTEED pool R4,500,000 (estimated pool R5.1 million plus)

Race 5: Jackpot ONE Leg 1 – likely pool R1,000,000

Race 6: PA Blitz Leg 1 – likely pool R100,000

Race 7: BiPot TWO Leg 1 – likely pool R150,000

Race 8: Normal range of TAB bets

Race 9: Premier’s Champions Challenge – Jackpot TWO Leg 1 – R40,000 carryover, likely pool R750,000. Also M6 for Soccer GG

Race 10: Normal range of TAB bets

Race 11: Jackpot Quickmix Leg 1 – R22,950 carryover, likely pool R200,000

Race 12: Normal range of TAB bets

* TAB betting on the meeting opens Wednesday 3 May.

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34 comments on “Guaranteed Pools For Champions Day

  1. Gavs says:

    Wow!! That is so generous of Phumelela.Kudus to Vee Moodley who knows from past Champions Day meetings that the guaranteed pool will always be achieved by Phumelela. Is this guarantee in respect of the Gross or Net Pool? I think that if Phumelela is putting its mouth where it is, it should not include any carry over amounts into the guaranteed pool. There is zero risk to Phumelela yet we as punters carry the risk with the real possibility of no reward.

    1. Editor says:

      Hi Gavs

      All references are to net pools, per Vee Moodley

  2. Brett Maselle says:

    I worry about the statement that should a pool fail to reach the guaranteed amount, TAB will make up the difference subject to the condition that all commingling partners are able to bet into the pool as scheduled.

    To the best of my knowledge overseas “commingling partners” never bet into the South African Pick Six.

    The guarantee is a nothing and a disgrace.

    1. Editor says:

      We have asked Mr Moodley to respond

    2. Editor says:

      Hi Brett

      We spoke to Mr Moodley.

      The Pick 6 pools are commingled.

      He pointed out that when he dropped couplings a few years ago it was a move to align ourselves with the international rules to encourage commingling partners.

  3. Brian says:

    Regarding the response to Adv. Maselle, his question was not answered

    1. Editor says:

      Elaborate please Brian

      1. James George says:

        This is what was stated in September 2013(suppose by Mr. Vee Moodley) when couplings in the Pick 6 were done away with
        “While the bracketing of horses trained by the same trainer in the Pick 6 is falling away, TAB will retain the first-timer rule for the time being. Into the future, however, it is intended to drop this rule as well, which will bring the Pick 6 into line with international rules and enable overseas totes to commingle into TAB Pick 6 pools on South African racing
        So now why are we hearing that when he dropped couplings a few years ago it was a move to align ourselves with the international rules to encourage commingling partners
        So are Pick 6 bets commingled or are we still ‘encouraging’ commingling partners?
        Adv Maselle may be correct .

        1. Editor says:

          Hi James

          Mr Moodley contacted us immediately upon receiving a copy of the comments.

          He made it clear(he frankly sounded surprised that this was not known) that the Pick 6 is very definitely commingled.

          He also mentioned in the same conversation this afternoon that the first-timer rule was the one aspect of the P6 that was not in line with international rules. He did not indicate at any stage of the discussion that this was to be done away with, however.


        2. James George says:

          Apologies,Mr. Vee Moodley is right about the Pick 6 being commingled
          The Vaal Pick 6 today paid 327 771.70 Euros on the Irish Tote.with the first timer rule still in place.

  4. Extravagantlyhorseracing says:

    why not guarantee 5,1 million if the pool is expected to be there

    1. Editor says:

      EHS in attempting to understand their approach, one can take it as them backing their own projections to reach a guaranteed pool sum.

      This gives the bigger player a comfort of knowing the upside before he dives in blindly as he did before , hoping that the pools would be big.

      It will be very much the exception than the rule were Phumelela to be placed in a contributory position in a fall short Guaranteed Pool

  5. Extravagantlyhorseracing says:

    my point precisely, so why the marketing fubar, looks clumsy and amateurish.

  6. Steve says:

    Well done Mr Moodley you are great for the game keep up the good work.

  7. Brett Maselle says:

    On 15 February 2010, the Manager: Racing and Betting,National Gambling Board informed me in writing that:

    “Phumelela has been advised to inform their customers when pools are commingled so that customers can then take a decision whether to bet on that pool or not”.

    Sometimes when you may be watching Tellytrack, you may hear that the pool is commingled. Other than the odd announcement, I do not see it printed on the Tellytrack screen or in any race cards and newspapers.

    The problem is that the NGB did not make a ruling against Phumelela and only advised it to act in the best interests of the punter.

    Anyway, getting back to the issue at hand, the response by Vee Moodley regarding the Pick Six Pools is unhelpful. Could Mr Vee Moodley inform us of the countries which are commingling into our Pick Six? I ask this question because if Euro’s or USD are being commingled into our Pick Six on a daily basis then the pool would reach two to three million Rand on any ordinary day.

    #Anecdotally, at least we now know that it was a decision of Vee Moodley (and no-one else) to drop couplings from the Pick Six.

    1. James George says:

      Mr. Vee Moodley HAS to inform us of the countries which are commingling into the Pick 6.
      He says,”“Obviously if a local or international commingling partner is prevented from betting into the pool for whatever reason, for example a loss of connectivity, the guarantee will fall away”
      So who are these local and international commingling partners?
      And what is the least,(converted into Rands) that these partners can bet into the Pick 6 pool?And how much are each of them betting into the pool now.
      If the Kenyan tote is betting into the Pick 6,say for R25 000 and there is a loss of connectivity, will it be fair for the guaranteed Pool to fall away?
      In December was surprised and angered when holding winning swinger and Trifecta tickets on a Wednesday afternoon Hong Kong race.Was paid out a dividend on the Trifecta bet and got a refund on swinger bets
      Why no dividend declared on swinger bets?
      Official response.
      “Hong Kong removed South African swinger wagers from the pool due to not having met minimum bet value per combination.Hong Kong refunded swinger pool”
      Strange… ..

  8. Gavs says:

    Hello Ed.

    This topic has grown legs. Please ask Phumelela whether the guarantee is a net or gross pool. It would be nice to know which countries are involved in our Pick 6. I agree that Phumelas answers are unhelpful. Punters are Phumelelas lifeblood and they should welcome all questions and answer them without hesitation. Please try them again. By the way, I would have preferred a minimum payout guarantee of R2500k which would have been more appetising and enticing to me.

    1. Editor says:

      Hi Gavin

      We have addressed a mail to Mr Moodley.

      You are naturally joking about the minimum payout guarantee :)?

  9. hilton witz says:

    my message to every punter playing a pick six on saturday would be to take the pick 6 with a bookmaker who offers the open bet and guarantess a payout of 2 million ..by doing this the pick 6 pool on saftote will fall well below the guaranteed amount and hence the payout will be much larger as the money that saftote have to put into the pool will have no tickets on them …

    1. Elroy Van Reenen says:

      This grand standing by TAB of the big P6 pools is rubbish, it is for them not the punters. The payout of the P6 on the big race on the calendar is low (edited). Just look at the Turfontein P6 on 01/04/2017 and previous ones. Just put Tarry, De Kock, Woodruff, Ramsden and two or three other trainers horses and you will win the P6 and it will payout peanuts

  10. Gavs says:

    1. On 02/05/17 – Mr Moodley IMMEDIATELY contacted Sporting Post after receipt of readers comments sent to him.

    2. On 03/05/17 – Sporting Post send an email to Mr Moodley asking him for more comment because his answers created more questions than answers.

    3. On 04/05/17 – No response has been received by the Sporting Post from Mr Moodley. This is odd as Mr Moodley usually acts without undue delay.

    4.On 05/05/17 – ??????…………..?

    1. Editor says:

      Busy man Gavs – we have it diarised for follow up

  11. James George says:

    Funny how when a person is appointed as a Betting Executive he would say,
    “It’s an extremely important position because betting is the hub of horseracing, which could not exist without it. I pride myself on customer satisfaction and believe that my enthusiasm will enable me to deliver what TAB customers require”
    and then a few years down the line their enthusiasm is dampened by a few questions.on betting..

    1. Editor says:

      That’s a bit harsh – his door has always been open to the media

  12. Leon says:

    It is hard to find a more enthusiastic racing person than Vee. As an executive he still puts in the time to do a betting recommendation sheet which guests have access to at the big race days. His tipping is normally very good and I can attest to both his knowledge and passion for the game. Not many people that are better ambassadors, more approachable and a friend of racing than he is.

  13. Gavs says:

    Champions day is here and the customers of Phumelela do not know which countries are betting into South Africas P6 and whether the promised guarantee is a net or gross pool.
    It is time that the accolades for Vee Moodley start to end. To me, his conduct in not responding to simple questions is a perfect example why we need to always question the true intentions of Phumelela and need to stop eating the slop dished up to us by it.
    Phumelela is lucky that it has a monopoly over the tote. As a customer, I would have switched to the competitor a long time ago. Customers have a right to know.

    1. James George says:

      Calling this announcement part of a kind of Ponzi Scheme will be a little harsh.
      But when you enter into a contract with any one without knowing the full T’s and C’s could be called reckless spending
      Gambling Board? .

  14. Leon smuts says:

    Gavs, although I completely agree with you on the right to get answers any regular punter, which I assume you are, could fairly accurately predict the minimum pool. The choice is then a simple one of where you want to place your money, the tote or a bookie. There are bigger unresolved issues in racing than clarity on pool sizes and I for one will also criticize but equally give credit where it’s due.

    1. James George says:

      Do not think the elephant is the pool size.
      It is information that is needing before laying the bet. .
      Mr. Moodley was supposed to have said that he was surprised that the punters did not know the Pick 6 was commingled.The last we heard about the commingling of the Pick 6 was that the first timer rule was preventing it
      The first timer rule was not changed,but now we hear the Pick 6 is commingled.Why we only know that now is because people at the top kept it to themselves
      Can still hear Mr. Shaw saying ,”Give the punter the information.He needs all the information possible”.

  15. Gavs says:

    Mr Editor, I kindly ask Sporting Post not to place its request to Vee Moodley in file number 13 and forget about it. Phumelela must be held accountable and I ask you to insist on a reply. Thank you. Intend on sending reminders.?

  16. Brian says:

    Wow! That was some reading for a Monday morning. To me, none of it mattered. I only managed to get a bet on in Race 10. Apparently it’s just me according to customer care at Tabonline. And it’s just me on Met day, July Day and Champions Day. I can’t get a bet on. I don’t know why my internet is different to everyone else’s but according to customer care, it is.
    So guys, at least you got to moan about something, last Saturday would have been the first time in my life I would have won the pick six. I decided not to know what I missed.

    The only moan I have is Tabonline needs to get it’s act together on big race days. They’re not surprises after all.

  17. Gavs says:

    Hello Mr Editor. This a reminder to contact Vee Moodley and to ask him to put pen to paper. I am surprised that you do not find the approach of Vee Moodley by not replying to be discourteous. Please will you also publish on the comments section as a reply to me a copy of the questions aked of Vee Moodley.

  18. Gavs says:

    Another reminder Ed.

    Whats up that Vee is shying away from simple questions.

    The silence tells me that all is not what it seems.

    1. James George says:

      Though some one has blundered
      It’s theirs not to reply
      And it’s not yours to reason why
      Its yours to increase the pools
      And to happily lose.

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