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Wigan Bet – Goodman Responds

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James Goodman has written  to the Sporting Post Mailbag in reply to Tony Mincione’s correspondence of Monday 10 August 2020.

If you missed the Mincione letter, read it here

Mincione wrote that seasoned racing man, as well as poker and golf expert, James Goodman has the wind in his sails, waxing on about a bet he played that has been disputed by his (now former, it seems) friends at Hollywood.

Goodman responds:

Always keen to be able to answer a letter, especially when I am portrayed as John Wayne! I don’t recall him ever losing a gunfight and I intend to continue on that winning streak!

I will set out how I got to this juncture with the betting on Wigan being relegated.

Firstly let me say I am in no one’s employ and only do race previews for my show on You Tube, called Winning Ways Show. This is a free to public information channel and I only request those logging on to subscribe.

This allows all those subscribers to get notified when I publish previews for Gauteng and KZN racing. I also interview interesting racing folk who have a story to tell. On that note I am surprised your paper never ran Charles Faull’s interview last Friday!

Let’s consider the facts around the announcement and state that Wigan was mid table on 1st July 2020 when the bet was taken.

They were not certain to be relegated. They were not bottom of the table at the time, and were left in their position mid table until the last game was played. They had 5 games left, and if winning all 5 games they would NOT have been relegated!

In fact they were on a winning streak, having been unbeaten in their last 8 games. Their last 6 games resulted in one loss, 3 draws and 2 wins. If winning either of their last 2 games they would have escaped relegation.

They drew their penultimate game after conceding in the 93rd minute when winning. They then played Fulham who they were beating till the 77th minute when Fulham scored to draw.

There were other games on the go at that time and the results of those needed to go against them in order for them to be relegated after the 12 point deduction. Talk about having fun watching games and a moving Championship table till the last minute. It all falls into place for the bet and they are 2nd from bottom and relegated, or are they? News comes that they will appeal the 12 point deduction.

letter

This is the timeline with the Hollywood

At approximately 12.30 on Wed 1st July a friend of mine contacts me at the races with the news of Wigan going into administration and tells me they are 100/1 for relegation on the Hollywood site.

I tell him I am going to take R100 of that. He asks for the same. I ring my friend who has an account with Hollywood and tell him the news and ask him to put R100 for each of us at 100/1. He calls me back 10 minutes later saying he could only get R200 on as that was the maximum exposure Hollywood allowed.  We accepted the bet and split it 3 ways.

24 days later,when the bet is a winner he gets a call from Hollywood telling him that the bet is cancelled, as it was the wrong price.

He phones me and I phone Devin Heffer.

Devin tells me he is on holiday and I should speak to Dermott O’Connor. That I do, and record the conversation with O’Connor’s knowledge. In a nutshell O’Connor says the bet will be met should Wigan lose the appeal. I agree.

5 days later Devin Heffer phones me and tells me he is cancelling the bet and will pay us even money or refund our money.

I explain my agreement with O’Connor but he is not interested. So the account is credited with an even R200. 1/3 has never been discussed. Where Tony Mincione gets that from is his imagination or probably information fed to him by Hollywood. I am not sure if he is connected commercially to Hollywood.

So in summation. Were the bets struck? Yes, and O’Connor concedes Hollywood knew they were the wrong price some days the bets were struck.  Well within the 24 days for fruition.

Did Hollywood or their staff take action prior to the final result being posted, knowing the bets were the incorrect price? No

You be the Judge!

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13 comments on “Wigan Bet – Goodman Responds

  1. jc lee ching says:

    Mr Goodman you are doing a great job on you tube ,keep it up. Just hope you get treated fairly regarding this matter but have huge doubts that it will happen. Take heart you have many supporters out there.

  2. Luke boucher says:

    A bet is a bet , not a financial agreement subject to a multitude of factors. Hollywood must pay up!

  3. Santoro says:

    I wonder what would happened had you lodt the bet!!!

  4. Gary Grant says:

    If you read their fine print , you will see a disclaimer with all bookmakers that when pricing up the wrong odds ,that bet is subject to cancelation and a refund is issued. Its happened multiple times across all different betting firms. Don’t you know punters always lose.

  5. Marlon Sing says:

    Quiete honestly reading James Goodman article and knowing him he will never cry foul for 20k,what his point is I have to agree 100%,if you a bookmaker laid a bet you have to do the right thing and honour the bet,intact he doesnt have to wait for the appeal process because the final log counts,the appeal process could take months,I also had a nasty experience with WSB,one day last year in July I deposited and lost the entire day 35k,I took bets for eg:20000/10000,15000/5000(all lost ect)…I lost this particular day and took it like a gambler should and said I will cover another day,2 days after this particular day I eft R15000 and won a total of 80000 the entire daywinning and losing during the day taking bets like 30000/15000,45000/15000,40000/20000 (winning bets),a day after taking these winning bets I get a email from WSB risk manager,informing me limits have been set on my account I cant win more than R10000 in any bet,I obviously disputed and asked him via email 4 days ago when I lost I never received an email stating I have limits because I was losing,anyway you should get my point by now, dont want to go on but by the way they closed my account at my request,I now play with Hollywoodbets and never had issues so far,I personally feel me has a gamble will accept a honest mistake by the clerk for eg: if a bet is 8/10 and the clerk accidentally prices up at 80/1 this is called human error and I wont put up a fight should they have laid me 8000/100,I would have accepted 8/10 as a final payout,but in Mr Goodmans experience they took the 100/1 well in advance of any news being issued about relegation being made official Hollywood should pay them out,what if the Tables were reversed and Wigan never got Docked the points,WOULD HAVE HOLLYWOOD CAME BACK AND SAID SORRY GUYS HERE IS A REFUND?

    Bookmakers should especially WSB respect the gambler I personally on July day on my friends account took a bet for R17500/5000 they laid the bet on the mobisite although he had winning limits as well of R10000,if the horse won would they have came back to him and said the limit is R10000/5000,but because the horse lost they never mentioned anything.

    Question should be asked why lay a bet if you cant take the risk,I personally as a gambler take the risk to lay my cash down,win or loose I walk away satisfied knowing I controlled my gambling and I would never chase a bet.

    MR GOODMAN I AGREE WITH YOUR FIGHT FOR JUSTICE.

    I still and will always play with Hollywoodbets they have exceptional staff in all there branches and in their head office especially Phillip(Manager Verulam) he is a humble of humble human and Darren fox from their Headoffice always assisting the gambler.

    REGARDS
    MARLON SING

  6. Donald Bradshaw says:

    A bet is struck with a bookmaker at the odds quoted by that bookmaker , the bookmaker accepts and confirms the bet by whatever means , should that confirmed bet be a winning bet then that bet must be paid out by the bookmaker.

    If this bet was struck outside these conditions the bookmaker has a right to take whatever actions are contained in their Ts & Cs and in this case if Wigan are appealing the decision against them and will not be relegated should they win that appeal then the bookmaker has a right to suspend that bet until that process has been completed.

    A simple matter , one would assume !

  7. Vivian Mansour says:

    James if that was a loosing bet would they have refunded your R200 saying the bet was nul and void????

  8. Cecil Pienaar says:

    Hey James, man a 100/1 bet that got away. HWBets KZN, do the right thing and pay. You sound a bit like like that short term insurer looking for reasons not to pay.

    How I miss the days when we only punted horses, we used to sit at table 106 and James and his buddy Laff at table 107 at Scottsville

    # PayBackTheMoney is 40/1 for the Gr3 Gold Cup, small consolation. But get it on early !

  9. Donald Bradshaw says:

    Had a look at the bottom of this league ( my team were top by a street ) and its a fact that had Wigan won their last game against Fulham instead of drawing they would have stayed up.

    So it was a close run race !

    What struck me therefore is the betting that has been quoted here of 1 / 3 and 100 / 1 that Wigan would be relegated none of which can be correct in the context of the race ?

    Perhaps Hollywood would comment on these skewed odds so that we can all get a better understanding on how Wigan were priced up to be relegated ?

  10. Cecil Pienaar says:

    Donald, if I read and understand both articles – Wigan was sitting pretty with odds of 100/1 to be relegated. The 12 point penalty news broke, HWB slow to adjust odds, a Good Man or 2 quick, perfect timing and got a bet on…

    HWB does wonderful stuff but we all know they battle with numbers 😂 (and draws )

    Look I think they’ll agree to a coin flip, but –
    Heads and tails – they win
    Lands on its side – punter win

    You right, they should clear up – what I find strange, they only reacted when it became a winning bet….

    Anyways back to my game, racing – hope the weather gods don’t interfere with Scottsville t-m 🤞🏻

    Pieta, lees jy nog ? Wat dink jy van die Een…

  11. Pieta Louw. says:

    Hey Cecil,

    Ja ek loer nog in.

    Oor die subject….ek weet meer van van die space station as van soccer.

    Laat ek liewer vir jou n wenner probeer tip…..

    Race 2. 11 Kings Crusade. 58kg…..80MR (as die handicappers reg is)……min dat jy n MR80 nog in die maidens sien.
    Oom Den se perd die gevaar.

  12. Cecil Pienaar says:

    Hallo Pieta, bly jy is nog met ons. Interesting articles.
    LoL, ja, maak 2 van ons. Perde is Maar my ding

    Dankie, hoop weer speel more saam. I can do with a win, lately just adding to the pools.

    Stay Safe, chat soon and compare notes for Gold Cup, big pools & big payouts 👍

  13. brett Venniker says:

    There is another way to look at the matter and goes as follows. A bet is a contract between two parties in terms of which the one agrees to pay the other a sum of money on the happening of an event in the future. There are terms which are imposed.If one of those terms is so unreasonable that the offended party is rendered powerless totally powerless then that clause can be struck out by a court. May be food for thought?
    James , Ginger { the cat } is well and thriving.

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