Home » Racing & Sport » Kenilworth TAB Pools – Assurances Given

Kenilworth TAB Pools – Assurances Given

Or are we fooling ourselves by bumping pools up?

TAB payouts on Race 7, the L’Ormarins Queen’s Plate, and the Pick 6 at Kenilworth last Saturday, were correct as declared.

This has been reported via a TAB media release published on Wednesday 13 January 2021, and follows customer queries about the TAB Win payout on the Queen’s Plate in particular, and the carryover Pick 6 dividend.

The betting system logs on Race 7 and the Pick 6 were thoroughly analysed and payouts re-audited.

Jet Dark wins the L’Ormarins Queen’s Plate (Pic – Chase Liebenberg)

The double check revealed nothing untoward and TAB assures customers the dividends are correct.

Trainer Justin Snaith’s charge Jet Dark won the Queen’s Plate at odds of 12-1, but paid R4, 90 for a TAB Win as a result of sizeable bets on the colt shortly before the start.

These wagers on Jet Dark collectively increased the TAB Win pool on the race by some 6%, but simultaneously resulted in the three-year-old’s payout dropping from R7.10 to R4.90.

The Pick 6, in which fields on average comprised less than nine runners, was boosted by a R3-million carryover and returned a dividend of R5 019.

Tote favourites won three of the six legs.

While the information available is sketchy, it has been suggested to the Sporting Post from a credible source in the industry that over 60% of the Kenilworth Pick 6 pool was contributed from international sources, and that around 80% of the pool was actually won by these off-shore players.

Another player speculated that a narrow margin system, where ‘rebaters’ play a size and method that all but guarantees they will be nett winners, likely almost before their rebate, was probably at play.

“The cost of our nett loss is for the liquidity of larger pools – but that ‘cost is just too much’.Totes and bookmakers have turnover businesses. Nett loss, or a steady take-out, waters down the turnover and eventually the total amount of money circulating. How do the ‘bigger’ pools offset the actual loss? Let’s say that the international portion of Saturday’s Pick 6 was 60% (R5,5m) and ‘they’ won 80% (R7,3m), and ‘SA’ lost R1,8m – then we surely would have been better off with a R3,7m pool where all of it stayed here? We are mostly in the dark – so they can’t blame the customer for speculating!”

Then the carryovers are another matter – punters have been shouting for years to have the carryover pools recorded and published – and ring-fenced, as they do not belong to TAB.

Answers have not been forthcoming.


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12 comments on “Kenilworth TAB Pools – Assurances Given

  1. doug hare says:

    that comment i made about P6 pool growing 4 million in last 5 minutes must be that off-shore coming in.

  2. Leo Murfin says:

    Honestly hope that the news that overseas punters took 80% of the P6 pool is not true – Considering that a British punter is only paying R 0.20 per line where we are paying R 1.00 ? They don’t even have to study form (which hardly ever words here) – They can just play every field and Bob’s your Uncle. Disgusting !!!!!!

  3. Garrick Bergh says:

    This ‘response’ is chock full of nonsense and evasion :

    1.) At it’s highest level the prospective payout was already 50% lower than the fixed odds offering.
    2.) Remember that you need to deduct R1 from the payout as that amount represents the punter’s own money. So the Tote SP was a fraction under 4/1 as opposed to the fixed odds SP of 12/1.Let’s not even introduce the likelihood that a punter would have had little or no difficulty in obtaining 14/1 on the eventual winner as it traded at that level for much of the time leading up to the ‘off’. That’s a 350% difference!
    3.) I have a great deal of difficulty accepting that anyone other than a complete halfwit would speculate on a pooled bet already displaying a lower likely payout than fixed odds when backing a horse at long odds. Racing 1.01 teaches us that bookmakers do not relish laying big prices so tend to shorten them quite quickly and substantially if there is sustained interest. Clearly there was not.
    4.) Interestingly there appeared to be no significant improvement in the odds on offer on the other runners as a result of this imbalance.
    5.) I have attempted on many occasions to get an accurate guide as to what the precise takeout is on all bets. Racing remains the epicentre of evasion and insider trading so my enquiries have always been met with ‘about this much’ or ‘around about that much’. The mandarins that run this sport simply cannot make a connection between a successful business and transparency. Nor can they seemingly understand how this contributes to the migration of punters to other betting activities.
    6.) What is the rebate? Who gets it? How much is it? Do I qualify? How come it never gets mentioned? More transparency!
    7.) Re-audit? So if they had paid one Mr A Capone 30% of the pool their attitude would be – ‘This is all fine. He is a well known businessman operating in the liquor and hostess industry.’
    8.) I commented after Day 1 of the LQP Festival that the pool had clearly been ‘adjusted’ from 60c to R1 in the case of the Celtic Sea place payout. Nett of the full takeout, of course! This is in line with a supposed policy (except in certain instances such as a dead heat ) that a minimum dividend of R1 is paid. This rather flies in the face of the endless ‘No limit on our payouts’ propaganda disseminated by Saftote. Perhaps it should be amended to read ‘No limit on by what degree we will amend your payout’.

  4. Does anyone know how you can get a swinger carry over? There was a race at Newcastle UK a couple of evenings ago. A 200-1 shot came second. A dividend was declared for each of the 3 swingers with the biggest one being around R120. And then there was a carryover of R2000 odd. How is this possible? I can understand having a carryover with fractional betting but this doesn’t apply to swingers. Maybe I’m missing something?

  5. The swingers paid R350, R140 and R9. Swinger carryover R2,300

  6. Len Bloch says:

    It is a total impossibility for ANY carry over to occur since as long as there were winning tickets on all three combinations,the total pool should have been divided and allocated to those winning tickets.
    I now get the impression that the tote side of racing is about as honest as the lotto scam.

  7. I agree 100% with you Len. Yet it happened, Newcastle 12 Jan, race 6. I didn’t catch any of the swingers unfortunately but if I did I would be feeling very short changed right now and would take it up with the tote. A couple of years ago I caught a trifecta a couple of times, immediately after the race I looked at the favoured Trifectas and it was paying about R350 . When the results were declared it only paid half that. I queried it with Vee Moodley and he said it was due to international bets being factored in at the last minute. Enough to halve the dividend of the winning trifecta? I never felt comfortable with the tote after that

  8. Brent Maxim says:

    You know how many times I’ve been robbed. Especially with exacta and swinger. Will pays different than what they really pay out. Result payout different to will pays. Huge difference.

  9. Cecil Pienaar says:

    Nee, ek weet darem nie so mooi nie…. k#k storie, die mense het lang vingers in die Till. The tote pay-outs are making news a lot lately. Just the other day with the QM JP, if one man didn’t point it out, sou hulle f#kk#l gese het. Ja right, overseas punters caused this low Win payout, and just before the off. All on The Tote, nothing with the Bookies, hey ! Look, the Tote wont and doesn’t miss a small punter like me, but the feeling is mutual. Add a few thousand like me, and it makes a difference.
    HWB and *Marshalls, nice and easy punting … Thank You

    * Mr Ed, pls allow, they advertise on this platform. I opened online, deposited R200 and minutes later had R430 in my account to play with. Big deal ? Yes like Graham HJ said the other day about HWB, they try… Its not just about freebies – Both great

    Albert Falls Greetings – Midmar dam is overflowing, yippee, water on its way to us 👍

  10. Graham Hurlstone-Jones says:

    Howdy Cecil, My dads farm is in Boston so that damn dam is his life measure, when I stayed in Hilton back in 88 that dam was the place to be if it had water in it !! otherwise off to Worlds End !! or the Quarry. I am not sure if I have said thx for Jet Dark, if I had not seen what you wrote pre race then I would not have put it in. The money they give us is not free money as it does come with conditions but it is a nice touch but they know they are still feeding the monster and it will all come back. I do not have a problem with that because I enjoy the monster and one day will have it by the tail again, the reason I don’t right now is MR, handicapping and the outrageous Tote ( I have been calling this perception for a while now ) It has a life of its own and the fact I play day and night at all centres, you start to see patterns. I have kept a photo record of some of the very obvious manipulation, whether through late money, scratchings and the big one being tote favs drastically changing after the off, this has an adverse affect on the scratchings and how the pay outs formulate and grow. I have spoken to Tabonline at length on this a while back and answered most questions but not all, that nagging doubt. Something is not right ( this overseas thing is very interesting ). The fact there is a human element means it is potentially flawed, that’s a lot of money literally every few minutes and say what you like the perception weighs heavily on the Tote ( the same with 30/1 shots beating hot stable mates, we got a couple of big ones in the last week but that perception is easily sorted ?? so why don’t they ? ). Your point on thousands of small punters laying Jet Dark is a Fair one if the word got out at the track !!!!???? Ive seen that rush at many tracks, you can start one yourself !!! but no one at track and I did not hear a word on telly to send thousands scuttling around the tote, they are mostly empty any way……..mmmmmm, perception, what happened last weekend ? or will that open pandora’s box ? we dont know do we……by the way, the carryovers are literally everywhere, i will win a late night exacta in the US and some of it gets carried over, every few pay outs I see has a carry over of some form……Len Bloch says it all for me but there will be % pay outs I get that but where are the carryovers ? that’s punters money, where does it all go ?……Watch that Tote everyone although like the outsider stablemate nothing will be done to show the punter its all above board ( perception ) because nothing has changed…..nothing. The heart beat of SA racing is the Pick 6 and it has been warning the “industry” that its getting sick, R678,000 was the highest pool this week, thats a very sick entity all of a sudden. I wonder if the LQP had anything to do with the punter not playing this week ? the tipping point so to speak, let’s see but everything I have mentioned above and everyone else finally has added to where we are now ( I get SA problems are huge ). I hope I am wrong but something has to give, the SA punter is not seen as a priority, maybe this overseas thing will save the day, whatever it is ? it sounds interesting, never heard of it until this week, it must be good for the SA punter ? or another way to get at SA punters money it seems, or does it work both ways ?

  11. Cecil Pienaar says:

    Hello Graham, happy you added Jet Dark 👍🏻. Good for you, I like it when people win and take some money back. Agree there are t & C’s with free money.

    Oh, that Boston area is beautiful, we often do the Annual Bass competition on the farm dams.’Tallies’ Talyaard, ex jockey won it couple years ago, right next to me. a Tagged bass nogal. And the after party at the Moth Shell Hole. Now closed, I think. Sadly

    My horse racing wish is for MOD to get ” hulle gat in rat ”

    Take care Graham, let’s win the big one soon. Met day ?

  12. Graham Martin says:

    Golden Ducat? or Queen Supreme IF she runs to her true rating!

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