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World Pool – Sheer Size Makes The Difference

Daily News raceday on Saturday

The Hong Kong Jockey Club, which boasts the biggest tote pools in the world, has classified the Daily News 2000 raceday as a World Pool event

This will result in TAB Win, Place, Swinger and Exacta pools on races 2 through to 9 on Saturday being commingled into Hong Kong’s massive tote pools, thus enabling South African punters to wager substantial amounts on these bet types without significantly affecting payouts.

The Pick 6 on the afternoon has received a R1 million carryover boost and Gold Circle Commercial Executive Patrick Loker has indicated that a projected pool of R5 million is likely for the six-legged exotic.

Patrick explained that the TAB Win, Place, Swinger and Exacta pools are being hosted by the Hong Kong Jockey Club and that their tote uses the Hong Kong Dollar as its base currency.

Gold Circle’s Patrick Loker – explains the dynamics

“Each tote jurisdiction that is betting into those pools will be betting using their own currency which gets converted at a predefined exchange rate for the day to the Hong Kong Dollar. These funds are then added into the Hong Kong Dollar pools. As in all totalisator betting systems, each horse then has a dividend declared for each bet type,” he said.

He went on to explain that upon completion of the race the dividend is declared in Hong Kong Dollars. This is then converted back at the same predetermined exchange rate and displayed and paid to the punter in the local currency of the tote system.

“Hence a payout of 10 HKD (Hong Kong Dollars) will convert to the local currency of each tote participant. It must be borne in mind that the pool totals and dividends will always display in the currency of the local country as all exchange rate conversions are done by the local systems.”

Phumelela’s Robert Garner (centre) chats to Mike de Kock and Charl Pretorius

Phumelela’s Robert Garner added that all currency conversions are done here.

“Remember that with any commingled pool there may be international totes betting in. In the case of Saturday all currencies involved will be instantly converted to HK Dollars with pool totals and bets taken transmitted to the Hong Kong tote every 15 seconds. The Hong Kong tote for its purposes will accept 10 HK-cent bets (penny betting) and then constantly collates these into full-unit bets. As Patrick explained currency rates are predefined.”

We asked Robert what the advantage of the arrangement was for the punter.

“It’s the sheer size of the Hong Kong pools. Thus punters can wager much bigger amounts without significantly affecting payouts than would be the case if Hong Kong was not participating. That’s always the advantage of commingling, which assists in giving tote pools critical mass or liquidity and making them more robust and therefore more appealing. For example, there’s no prospect of a big win with a R5k Quartet pool and there’s no sense in spending say R2k in such a pool because nearly a third of the pool would be your own money. So for obvious reasons any punter would much prefer to be betting into a R1-million pool,” he added.

On Sunday the Gr1 Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby) will be simulcast live from Tokyo Racecourse during the Sha Tin race meeting.

The Tokyo Yushun (2400m for 3yo colts and fillies) is the second leg of the Japanese Triple Crown and the biggest race for the classic generation.

With a purse of JPY432,000,000, it is the richest Derby in the world with many of its past winners such as Deep Impact, Vodka and Orfevre achieving legendary status amongst racing fans.

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10 comments on “World Pool – Sheer Size Makes The Difference

  1. Leo Murfin says:

    Hi Mr. Ed, Thank you very much for asking Mr. Patrick Locker to explain the dynamics of the commingled pools and its advantages to the SA punter !

    1. Editor says:

      Cheers Leo

  2. Garrick Bergh says:

    Other than punters being able to bet larger amounts on the tote without materially affecting the provisional payout Mr Loker tells us very little of value. I would be interested to know the following :

    1. What is the PRECISE takeout from the Hong Kong pool when compared to striking an identical bet on SAFtote? I find it difficult to believe that either Hong Kong or Phumelela is doing this for nothing so which operator is offering the ‘rake’ discount or taking the hit? Or is there simply a higher takeout cunningly concealed in this exercise to compensate both parties?
    2. What about the exchange rate gyrations? It would be interesting to see what (quote) ‘defined’ exchange rate is adopted. I would not be in the least surprised if yet another cosy margin is included as a ‘safety’ measure.
    3. Further to ‘2’ above one has to wonder how fractions are affected when the nett pool is divided up amongst winning tickets. A tiny fraction on pools of this size will amount to a massive sum of money that is not being returned to the punter.

    I was absolutely stunned to see Mr Garner is still employed by Phumelela. I would be riveted to learn what his role & function has been whilst Phumelela has been in business rescue. A remarkable number of the same old Phumelela suspects seem to be re-surfacing. The more things change……….

  3. Ryan Michael says:

    Hi Ed.

    Do we know if the same agreement has been reached for July day?

    1. Editor says:

      Hi Ryan
      We are not sure about that
      Will ask them

  4. Rod Mattheyse says:

    Garrick I would hazard a guess and say that the operators will get a tiny % of what the overseas pool generates – but it is all incremental so we should be “satisfied” – the big hope is this big pool hype will get more local money in the pot.

  5. Michael Jacobs says:

    That’s why I’ve said that this “co-mingling” is a gimmick and no benefit to local punters. Its a publicity stunt to con SA punters into betting and thinking that they are going to get inflated dividends . It might well benefit the big punters who place big bets but that’s it.

    When is racing going to start being honest and stop hoodwinking the customers?

  6. Aubrey Nomvela says:

    ….and incovenience punters for nothing.Now we have to wait longer to cash winning tickets as it takes forever to declare payouts as official on the tote.What a joke!!!!

  7. Sean Coetzee says:

    Michael Jacobs, well said!!!

  8. Garrick Bergh says:

    Michael Jacobs – Have you ever met a ‘big punter’ who would even consider striking a large win bet on the tote? I haven’t & for one simple reason : Big bets are inevitably credit transactions!
    That faint whiff is starting to morph into something that stinks. Calling it a gimmick may even be a polite description…….there’s an awful long way to go before trust in this industry is re-established.

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